No. 14 Hawaii 3, Fullerton 0
Links for today’s match, 4 p.m. HST
TV None
Radio 1420-am
espn1420am.com
live stream
BigWest.TV
Live stats
http://www.fullertontitans.com/sports/w-volley/2016-17/boxscores/20161029_yu2s.xml
COMMENTS
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Since I am just killing time before the Fullerton match, here is the UCI version of how the red card happen according to Anteaters official site.
“Following the Dennis kill, a card was issued to the Long Beach bench and after the officials conferred a point was given to UCI after determining that two yellows were given in the fifth set resulting in a red. The red card gave UCI a point to end the match 15-12.”
So, was the second yellow given to the bench player and not BG or was it to BG?
Okay, I know – it does not really matter – and I am pathetic with nothing to do until the match except wash the cars, cut the grass, trim the yard, etc. and etc. It is a sad commentary.
Fair warning to anyone not interested in further discussion of the BG red card, please skip my next couple of posts.
1. I too have time to kill. Like others, I reviewed the live stats scorer’s notes/play-by-play and the game video, and found something interesting. According to the live stats, the YC was given to BG at 14-12 UCI. Then a red card was issued to BG to make the score 15-12. In the game video, you can see the referees have two conferences at 14-12. You can’t see what BG is doing prior to the first referee conference, but the game is being delayed. After the first conference, the 2nd referee goes to the scorer’s table while the 1st referee explains something to Nele Barber. The 2nd referee then goes over to BG to tell him something, and BG continues pleading his case. I don’t see a highly negative reaction from BG during the discussion with the 2nd referee (something I would expect to see if he was told he received a yellow card). The 1st referee has NOT shown a yellow card by this point (this doesn’t mean one hasn’t been recorded). Then the 2nd referee holds a second conference with the 1st referee. Then the 1st referee shows a red card and the match is over. At no point earlier in the fifth set (or in the match) was BG issued a yellow card, so the yellow card is related to this sequence of events.
Next post will explain why this is all so interesting from the perspective of LBSU’s protest…
I believe the basis for LBSU protesting the red card is that referees did not follow procedure when issuing the first yellow card to BG. According to the NCAA rulebook,
“6.4.2 Sanction Procedures During Play
6.4.2.2 If a team member not currently on the court receives an individual sanction, the first referee shows the appropriate sanction card(s), and the second referee clearly and immediately communicates to a coach that the sanction has been assessed. The first referee may also communicate to the playing captain as needed.
6.4.2.3 The first referee indicates a delay sanction by showing the appropriate sanction card, and the captain approaches the first referee’s stand when directed to acknowledge that the sanction has been assessed. The second referee clearly and immediately communicates the sanction to a coach.”
As I mentioned above, the 1st referee did not show a yellow card. BG can claim that this violated procedure as he was not informed of the YC issuance. BG can also claim he was not told by the 2nd referee of the infraction, a second procedural error. Note from above that I did not see any negative reaction from BG when the 1st referee spoke to him after the first conference, so it is possible he was not informed. But I admit this is unclear. The non-issuance of the yellow card is very clear (even the announcers make no mention of a yellow card). BTW, by rule, coaches are considered team members. BG can argue because he was not informed of the YC, he could not have amended his behavior to avoid a red card, which clearly affected the match’s outcome.
More on BG’s other protest option…
Of course, BG could protest the red card was excessive, but these are the behavior examples per the rules that can result in a yellow (a second yellow on BG equals a red card): 1. Minor unsporting behavior ; 2. Repeatedly addressing officials about decisions; 3. Displaying frustration; 4. Attempts to influence calls; 5. Attempts to intimidate opponent; 6. Disruptive coaching. I think he was probably cited for #2.
From the NCAA rulebook,
“17.1.2 Protests to Be Considered
Examples of protest matters to be considered include:
17.1.2.1 Misinterpretation of a playing rule;
17.1.2.2 Misapplication of the correct rule to a given situation; or
17.1.2.3 Failure to impose the correct penalty for a given fault.”
I am assuming the procedural protest would fall under 17.1.2.2 and the excessive penalty protest would fall under 17.1.2.3.
I included the delay sanction above because BG’s actions clearly delayed the match for several minutes. However, such a sanction would need to be noted and I did not see any such notation in the livestats. Anyhow, just my thoughts on this crazy match.
If you’re on a tablet, I think this link may help get right to the video:
http://www.bigwest.org/story.asp?story_id=16071
On the Big TV video, there is a moment where the camera moves off the court immediately after Anteaters score the 14 point. The screen switches to a close up of the Irvine server who is awaiting to get the okay to serve. After couple moments, the setter eventually stands down as clearly something has happen on court. We can not see because the camera is fixed on the server. Then the camera pans back to the court where the down ref is conferring with the up ref. The down ref then goes to the scorer table and then tells BG something. Meanwhile the up ref has called the Beach Captain over to tell her something. Is it possible that the initial yellow card came out when the camera was fixed on the server?
I would find it unusual for a yellow card to be shown before the end of the conference, especially with no wild reaction from BG, and no mention from the announcers. I assume the refs would want to get the call right and get on the same page before issuing the card. Even the red was issued after the second conference.
BG was virtually forced to submit a protest due to his perceived violation of the conduct code. The coach is also bound by the conduct code and the repercussions are clearly stated. Penalties could include a warning, a suspension, or even a termination.
BG will have some explaining to do to the LBSU administration: the AD, the Press.,
Chancellor, and possibly even the BOR.
Yeah, I hear you but I can’t also envision a ref giving BG a red card without going through the proper steps of issuing a yellow card first. After all, it is BG and the NCAA ruling of a replay of the first match due to a ref error had to be in the back of the refs minds! My best guess is that refs followed the proper steps and an initial yellow card was properly issued but we may not have seen it because the camera was fixed on the server. Again for me, this is just idle and nonsensical talk as we await the Fullerton match.
And while all this is going on, Kansas beat Texas 3-2, although I’ve believed for awhile that Texas is overrated…
1-9. had mentioned on previous thread about the play-by-play saying that Yellow Card given to head coach at 14-12. then point awarded via the Red Card to HC.
I don’t believe play-by-play would say “delay of game” just that it was a YC then an RC.
We will see what happens with the protest. Will make for interesting discussion with Gimmilaro when seeing him next week.
Early Top 25
3) Minnesota def. 10) Penn State 25-17, 25-20, 25-18
13) Michigan lost to Indiana 14-25, 25-21, 16-25, 23-25
Hawaii starting Burns, Ionia, Granato, Greeley, Taylor, Maglio, Kahakai and Mitchem for Greeley.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=hVGjiAfbfz4&list=PLt1BhfzgbsF0jlyk-KhviB3CK2jAVArtd
seize the link!
Was told that the first yellow in the fifth came at 4-3. but neither the box nor the play-by-play has that listed. box says 1YC LB Coach Set 5, 12-14
1RC LB Coach Set 5 12-15.
Did anyone who watched the match see a yellow early in Set 5?
Any;way, Kill by Granato puts UH up 15-8 at the TTO.
11. If the NCAA honors the result of the game (28 Oct ) and the refs decision to issue a RC, it is entirely possible that BG may not accompany the team here for next week’s match with Hawaii.
BG’s improper conduct (which resulted in the loss of a match) would warrant a review/or investigation by LBSU administration. It’s questionable whether LBSU would risk BG losing his cool again without a definitive closure of this issue.
15. I rechecked the video at 4-3 in set 5 and according to the video announcer, BG did get a YC for his animated objection to a call. I missed that one. So my procedural theory above is invalid. I guess the notation on YC and RC is to indicate a second YC, even though there is no note of the first YC. So BG must be protesting on grounds that the second yellow was too harsh.
17. The red card was automatic since, from what was said, it was the second yellow of the match.
we’ll see if there is any punishment from the administration.
UH wins 25-19 on block by Burns and Granato.
18. thanks for checking.
odd that the boxscore and play by play don’t note it.
did you think the second YC was warranted. If it was delay of game, ref had no choice.
15. BG git a yellow card at UCI 4-3…He wanted UCI to get called for over the net…Can’t really see the ref issue the YC, but the commentator mentioned it…
Don’t understand how he doesn’t get more red cards…It’s one thing to be passionate, but he goes way overboard…
UH breaks away from a 13-13 tie. It’s 16-13. TO Fullerton
Taylor has tied Hurting for 11th place in kills.
20. IMO, the second YC was warranted. BG argued the call causing a delay in play and a first referee conference. After the second ref left the scorer’s table, he continued arguing the call with her, further delaying play. Then the second ref conference occurred, resulting in a red. Not like the refs had a short fuse. BG’s animated reaction at the end of the fifth set mirrored his reaction at 4-3, so I think the refs showed some restraint before giving him the red. My money says his protest is denied.
Taylor continues to serve. it’s 20-13. TO Fullerton
24. thanks for your opinion. From what you said, I would agree that they’ll deny the protest.
Higgins in for Taylor to serve at 21-13. it’s now 24-13. can you say bad rotation?
Koelsch with the kill. UH wins 25-13
nice job wahine! dominate from 13-all to close 25-13!
26. Here is the link to the LBSU-UCI red card match video, in case you want to judge for yourself:
http://www.bigwest.org/story.asp?story_id=16072
Ross at OPP for Taylor to start Set 3.
Per radio: Taylor out, ice packs on knee and shoulder. Ross with 2 kills,
UH up 9-5. TO Fullerton
Nikki on sidelines with right shoulder on ice.
33. see 32.
Koelsch ends it. 25-19
35. does the 6-2 mean setter 1 sets setter 2 and setter 2 attacks? i think so ;p
And Nikki lumped into the locker room after the game. Looking kinda bust up.
Why are so many posters so riled up on LBSU? I swear it’s gotten more posts on the last two threads than the Warrior exhibition and today’s volleyball game. Bottom line, beat LBSU next week and win out.
Looks like Annie is getting more comfortable on the left, she looked good. Gianna also had a good match, as did Kana-hockey as the announcer pronounced it.
38. probably because of the unusual way the match ended and the repercussions it has on Hawaii’s standing in the league.
what more to say about today’s blowout?
…and in the meantime, UCI-CSUN about to go the the 5th set…
Mckenna DOES play so much better with Annie on the left with her. Natasha also continues to do well.
Some are riled up but some like me are just trying to work out the anger pent up from the losses to BG in the 1990s. Just kidding – we were just killing time before the match.
updating Top 25
1) Nebraska def. Northwestern 25-20, 25-11, 25-20
2) Texas lost to 6)Kansas 25-17, 11-25, 25-27, 25-12, 10-15
3) Minnesota def. 10) Penn State 25-17, 25-20, 25-18
13) Michigan lost to Indiana 14-25, 25-21, 16-25, 23-25
14) Hawaii def. Cal State Fullerton 25-19, 25-13, 25-19
15) Michigan State def. Purdue 20-25, 25-21, 25-16, 25-18
24) Illinois lost to Iowa 20-25, 25-21, 21-25, 26-24, 12-15
24) USC def. Colorado 25-23, 25-22, 25-21
Long Beach State def. UC Davis, 25-19, 25-11, 25-23
UC Irvine at CSUN going 5
43. started in 1989 with the loss in the regional final when UH was hosting the final four for the first time.
I think it was Mitchem’s best showing yet – a lot less tipping and more ripping. Maybe Annie listened to what Chris McLaughlin said about her hitting. Hey, if McKenna is not tipping, there is absolutely no reason for Annie to be tipping. On couple of her placement shots, Annie was a good 8″ above the block. The good news is that Annie is starting to look like she did at Irvine Valley. Annie needs to rip at every set – just like Nikki and McKenna.
CSUN def. UCI, 20-25, 19-25, 25-20, 25-15, 15-11
CSUN wins it after being down 0-2…
46. Annie’s tipping has more to do with her still learning to hit left-side.
tonight she had career highs of 13 kills and seven blocks.
Tough break for UCI…probably used up all their emotion last night…
47. Do you know if a protest was lodged after this match? Seems to happen in 5-set matches involving UCI. lol
51. …one could say the same about matches involving LBSU…
52. Yes, except LBSU played a three-setter tonite…
UCI also lost its earlier match with CSUN 3-2
LBS has 3-2 wins over Hawaii and UCSB, and Friday 3-2 loss to UCI if result stands.
It will be interesting to see where Mitchem ends up. Just about a month away from the tournament and I have growing doubts that Greeley will replace her at front left. Then again, this weekend’s competition was weak, so hard to learn much of anything. Guess we will have to wait on the LBSU match.
Cindy, I do remember that match in the 1989 regional finals at the Blaisdell when we loss but also remember when we beat them earlier in the season. Cross and White vs. Tee and Karrie. Those were painful years because the NCAA would put UH and the Beach in the same regional brackets even though either team would have likely made the final 4 if placed in separate brackets. So very unfair of the NCAA.
Interesting that a relatively small percentage of Annie’s swings are at full speed. I wonder if she just wants to keep it in play, or if it’s a matter of struggling with timing on the outside. She does seem to still have problems with out of system plays. OTOH, she still ended up with a lot of kills.
56. Regional final was at UOP in 89. The Beach upset UOP then upset Hawaii in 5.
49ers swept Nebraska for the title at Blaisdell.
Those years it was strictly regional seedings to ‘grow the game’ according to the NCAA.
The unfairness was that Prop 48 (i think it was that number, maybe 42) that cost Teee Williams a year of eligibility. and they weren’t doing 5 years to play 4 back then.
#57 I agree. When Nikki is in, sometimes it seems to me that Annie is just trying to keep the ball in play and appears to be differing to Nikki to terminate – unless the set is to her sweet spot where Annie totally kills it.
Maybe I am reading too much into it but when Nikki was sub out in the third set, and the team needed Annie to be the terminating OH, Annie’s body language and her hits switched into a terminating mode.
Go for it Annie, there are only two months or so left in your college career – what are you waiting for? Blast away and terminate everything insight!
Sometimes it’s smart to just keep the ball in play and let your block/ defense get the job done until the set is right. Annie is playing smart.
Watching state title game, continue to be impressed by Elena Ogilvie.
#60 And of course, you are totally right. I was thinking more of an end game exit strategy – leave no regrets behind.
62 – During warmups Annie practically hits them straight down, so it’s kind of a bummer that she doesn’t unleash ‘um during the game.
Offer Elena Ogilvie Now coach Shoji. She is clearly the best player on the floor.
I think she will be an incredible libero if outside doesn’t work.
She patrols the back row the way Kim W used to with her quickness. I think she has like over 20 digs in just 2 sets!
BTW, Taylor will be re-evaluated when team gets home tomorrow. Shoji said at this point, he doesn’t know if she’ll be cleared to play Friday. We probably won’t know until Tuesday since the team is off Monday.
What happened to Taylor?
64….she is clearly one of the best dynamic athletes I have seen since Kalani Danielson. Her body language and quickness on the court at her age is way above the normal I have seen in years.
She can play in any major conference school at the pace she is playing. She got the “WOW” factor!
Elena Ogilvie is only a freshman in high school but she moves better than alot of college women now….She has that “something special” you just cannot teach. “Wow!”
Congrats to Iolani, Elena Ogilvie is a must get recruit for the wahine.
Has a freshman ever been state player of the year?
66. as discussed, Taylor left the match during a serving run at the end of Set 2. apparently landed awkwardly on a dig. she had ice on her knee and shoulder.
WOW, ok so I just got back from the title match for states Vball, congrats to Iolani. And come to find out that FRESHMAN PHENOM Elena O is all that, then some, and a whole lot more. Seriously I can’t even believe my eyes, she is NO JOKE. Seriously saw her only make about 5 errors tonite. She was their go to player. In the 4th set, towards the end, they just kept feeding her and feeding her, and kept delivering and she took them home. And Iolani is such a young team, they only have 2 seniors graduating. I absolutely can’t wait to see her evolution as a high school player, would LOVE it if she got recruited to UH. I know Shoji sometimes comes to the games to scout her.. She is amazing….
71. they are well aware of her