Spring football schedule
Here’s the tentative schedule for the Warriors’ spring training:
Saturday, April 4 — Practice 1
Monday, April 6 — Practice 2
Tuesday, April 7 — Na Koa Golf Tournament
Thursday, April 9 — Practice 3
Saturday, April 11 — Junior Day, Practice 4
Monday, April 13 — Practice 5
Tuesday, April 14 — Practice 6
Thursday, April 16 — Practice 7
Saturday, April 18 — Coaches’ clinic, Practice 8
Tuesday, April 21 — Practice 9
Thursday, April 23 — Practice 10
Saturday, April 25 — Practice 11
Monday, April 27 — Practice 12
Tuesday, April 28 — Practice 13
Thursday, April 30 — Practice 14
Saturday, May 2 — Practice 15
COMMENTS
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Spring training is in the air. Ahhhhhhh
Tentative times? Morning, noon, evening? Closed? Open?
GOOD MORNING, HAWAII!
Practices are probably open to the public
Not sure of the times.
Last year, they were mostly in the morning, although they mixed in some afternoon practices so they could review videos in team meetings.
Regarding stadium size, I offer the following game attendance averages for the following coaches:
Dick Tomey (1977-86): 40,726/home game
Bob Wagner (1987-95): 41,677/home game
Fred von Appen (1996-98): 31,932/home game
June Jones (1999-2007): 37,945/home game
Greg McMackin (2008-11): 36,311/home game
Norm Chow (2012- only data from 2012 season available): 30,113/home game
Base data from HawaiiAthletics/football/history/all-time results.
Two things I surmise from the data: 1) PPV has affected stadium attendance, and 2) winning-losing record affects attendance.
What I don’t understand is why the consultant’s study recommends a proposed new stadium size of 30-35,000 capacity. When the football team has a winning record (post-PPV), average game attendance is between 36,000 and 38,000 (G McMackin and J Jones/1999-2011). In three years the average was over 40,000 – 2003, 2007, and 2008. It is clear to me that there are other motives behind the small stadium recommendation. Maybe someone can shed some light.
hatakeman: “Two things I surmise from the data: 1) PPV has affected stadium attendance, and 2) winning-losing record affects attendance.”
derp.
“What I don’t understand is why the consultant’s study recommends a proposed new stadium size of 30-35,000 capacity. ”
idk. what’s the methodology used by the study to get its numbers? I’m sure it’s not as simple as just adding up the average attendance figures in the various coaching eras and dividing them by 6.
PPV in its current format has proven to be a BIG MISTAKE and has cut into overall attendance & gate revenue. Our most success was during the K5 era when we had better coverage and delayed broadcast of “at home” games. We screwed with that successful formula (which Blangiardi tried to convey) and we end up in the mess we’re in…Too many people swayed by the “upfront” money versus the long-term effect on the program. Greed spawned by ignorance and we’re the losers as a result…
Spring is in the air – Spring Practice means the season is ever closer. Can’t wait!
Looking forward to watching some spring ball.
GO WARRIORS!!!
also, hatakeman, i’m pretty sure the methodology for the study was a lot more complex than just adding up aggregate attendance numbers and dividing by 6. otherwise stadium authority would’ve given a sixth grader two lollipops and a kendama to crunch the numbers instead of paying an outside consulting firm to do elementary level arithmetic.
Great Afternoon All!
…now to check the calendar for days off on football days.
Go Bows!
HATAKEMAN #5
I agree with your assessment. Are we to limit our attendance forever @ 30,000 by building a maximum 30,000 seat stadium? A step backwards I’d say…………
A few winning seasons will push the attendance demand back up to where it once was. Then what do we do? Build another larger stadium?
H-man and beans, IMHO yes, build 30-35 capacity, when demand goes up they going raise ticket prices instead.
#5 Hatakeman – regarding stadium size
Past attendance may not be an accurate way to extrapolate future attendance. Not sure what data one can use though. Times have changed (internet/cell phones), the youth have more choices for entertainment – recent data suggest attendance is dropping in many college stadiums.
A cost-benefit analysis has to be conservative – especially in this era of cost overruns. The cost of a stadium will undoubtedly be bid high and the state/designers will have to make choices to value engineer the price down, which generally means cutting scope. Starting the design at 30k-35k seems a reasonable approach. Design can provide for future expansion if needed.
Going from a 30,000 seat stadium to a 38,000 seat stadium is a 27% increase in capacity. But the costs to add the 27% in seats will add way more to the cost than 27%– when you factor in increased costs in structural non-seating improvements, parking and decked parking to fit the site and other necessary infrastructure, the cost of the stadium could easily rise to 50-100 percent more. This would add to the costs of tickets which decreases attendance, and add to the costs of annual maintenance, also requiring an increase in ticket prices. But this would reduce the attendance size– i.e., it is not financially feasible to build over the 30.000 square foot size.
3A-House re: prior post at 8:14 am;
Tony ‘Bones’ Davis, i think he holds the UH single game scoring record of 45 . I remember Norman Ching, a real good guard, played for Mid-Pac in high school. Also, Norbert Mendes, who was also a terrific pitcher at Punahou, but the internet says he graduated in 1961 from there.
That Al Saake coached team went 9-18 in 1959-60 and beat Oregon St 56-51 on Dec 2, then lost 46-72 on Dec 3, per UH website. The UH site doesn’t list the team members for that year, it only goes back so far.
http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2013/07/18/79-year-old-san-francisco-basketball-player-still-showing-off-skills/
A-House re: prior post at 8:14 am;
Tony ‘Bones’ Davis, i think he holds the UH single game scoring record of 45 . I remember Norman Ching, a real good guard, played for Mid-Pac in high school. Also, Norbert Mendes, who was also a terrific pitcher at Punahou, but the internet says he graduated in 1961 from there.
That Al Saake coached team went 9-18 in 1959-60 and beat Oregon St 56-51 on Dec 2, then lost 46-72 on Dec 3, per UH website. The UH site doesn’t list the team members for that year, it only goes back so far.
http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2013/07/18/79-year-old-san-francisco-basketball-player-still-showing-off-skills/
Tempmanoa: You should also factor in the fact that NFLPro Bowl may not be a permanent/semi-permanent/occasionally visitor to Hawaii.
But maybe 35,000 should be the maximum.
Thank you all for your feedback/comments. Interesting feedback and food for thought. And I like “H-man” so I’ll retire hatakeman when the opportunity presents itself.
Saw in the stadium story on the news that there was a “trend” towards building smaller stadiums and that attendance has been going down on average nation wide. Don’t know if that’s true for all stadiums or just college stadiums. IIRC having more TV broadcasts and bigger paying viewing audiences was also a contributing factor.
Television PPV is also playing a role in the NFL considering lifting localized TV broadcast blackouts in certain NFL markets.
I have several comments on the foregoing posts.
First, as to why the Stadium Authority’s consultant Foley & Lardner LLP recommended that a new stadium only have a capacity of 30,000-35,000 seats, it’s enlightening to skim through their study which is online here:
http://alohastadium.hawaii.gov/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Project-Rainbow-Warrior-Comprehensive-Site-Summary-FINAL-ACCEPTED.pdf
If you go to page 6, you’ll find that they came up with their capacity recommendation based on “Stakeholder Feedback”. Specifically they state that “Our analysis included meetings with representatives of over 35 different stakeholders, many of whom we met with multiple times.” The list of stakeholders is in the back of the report, in Annex 15, and is mainly made up of politicians and bureaucrats, along with a sprinkling of sports organizations (the NFL, Hawaii Bowl, OIA, and HHSSA), and Ben Jay. There is a table in the study on page 28 showing attendance at various stadium events including UH football, but it only goes back to 2007. In short, there was NO comprehensive historical analysis of UH football attendance that took into account factors like winning and losing seasons and PPV. IMHO the Stadium Authority would have gotten a better product if they’d hired a sixth-grader as suggested by 4-Prong.
Second, with respect to the impact of PPV, I won’t deny that it’s had an effect on attendance, but PPV started back in 2002 and it didn’t prevent the football team from drawing over 40,000 in good years. I think winning has a lot more to do with attendance than PPV.
Third, regarding the idea that a smaller stadium would allow UH to charge more for tickets, that notion fails to take into account the real impact of PPV — the effective ceiling it places on the price UH can charge for game tickets. If the team is winning more people are going to want to watch games, either in person or on TV. But if the cost of watching in person significantly exceeds the cost of watching on TV, most fans aren’t going to buy tickets. So PPV imposes an effective ticket price ceiling, which means building a smaller stadium will in fact reduce UH’s potential earnings from ticket sales, because there will be less seat inventory to sell when the demand materializes.
Finally, I don’t agree with the contention that the per-seat construction cost of a new stadium would rise with the number of seats. That doesn’t make economic sense to me. Any large construction project is going to have a significant amount of fixed cost along with variable costs. Building a larger stadium would allow the fixed cost to be spread over more seats, lowering the average per-seat expense. So a 45,000-seat stadium shouldn’t cost more than 150% of what a 30,000-seat stadium costs; rather it should cost less than 150% of what a 30,000-seat stadium costs.
I think it makes sense to build smaller with room to expand. I don’t see the wisdom in throwing more money at Aloha Stadium, given its history of high maintenance/repair costs.
aloha everyone !! hatakeman #5
Regarding stadium size, 30,000 to 35,000 seat
to i think they came up with that size due BJ & CHOW’S plan to down size the UH football program. and to keep the head coach pay at what they pay chow know !!
what they forgot is the the stadium is use by other too !! plus with all this talk about going smaller making the NFL look taking there game and money maker for the state hawaii over sea’s !!
maybe UH should try and work a deal with the NFL on they help with the cost to make bigger stadium here in hawaii where all the NFL player want the pro bowl to be played at !! with them involved maybe great place for the super bowl too !!
DPK, re #18, I don’t think there’s enough college football stadium construction going on to conclude what the trend is. Stanford downsized considerably, from 85,000 to 50,000. Baylor went slightly smaller, from 50,000 to 45,000. North Texas went from 30,500 to 30,850. Houston upsized from 32,000 to 40,000, and Colorado State is planning to upsize from 32,500 to 40,000.
I also should have mentioned that Boise State has planned a staged expansion from 37,000 to 53,000.
Build the stadium with condo/apt. like boxes. During the off-season you can rent them out as vacation/rental units and during the season use them as luxury boxes. 😉
Fresno State is also upsize there stadium from 40,000 to 70,000 it’s a trend in the MWC.
Also heard from my Daughter who works at Fresno State that they regularly get donor’s who Donate at least 50,000 a year.
Hope my Warriors get there check books out
Doesn’t Fresno State also have a very difficult time filling their stadium? Last time I checked, on TV games, their stadium doesn’t look that full. 40K to 70K seems like a steep increase
23
Boise’s expansion makes sense. Fresno’s does not
Why can’t we build a stadium of 35,000 now but with smart architecture and construction, leaving area/areas to expand/build-on so we can expand to 40,000, 45,000 and to 50,000 or more if necessary. Also, the construction companies who claimed that a small stadium of 30,000 to 35,000 capacity can be built for under $200 million should be held accountable if they get the bid. They should only be paid if they can perform the construction on time and under budget. If it takes $200 million to re-work Aloha Stadium, it is hard to believe you can build a new one for under that amount. Let us not make the same mistake of building a freeway which is not really expandable and then suffered for years after population growth. Let us not make the same mistake of building a stadium which can become rusty in the salty ocean environment in a free … Let us not make the same mistake of taking so many years to build the H-3… Let us not make the same mistakes of under-estimating costs like we under-estimated the cost of the rail…
Hakeman and Hawaiimongoose, You 2 make sense! If you are going to expand your delivery business you don’t purchase a small truck.
Tanman, re #29, folks like me who’ve done a lot of project management in their career have a saying: “Phase II never comes.” There’s considerable expense involved with ramping up to get a construction project going. After biting the bullet to incur that expense, it’s best to build for the long run at that time, because later on when the need to do additional construction becomes apparent, having to incur the ramp-up costs all over again becomes a major obstacle.
Gotta agree with DPK. For the $200 million they are going to have to spend to upkeep the stadium, you might as well put that money toward a new stadium. As to the size, I’d be okay downsizing to say 40,000.
My sister is a major supporter of Gonzaga basketball (she and her husband are law school grads) and Mark Few deliberately wanted to keep the new arena that opened in 2004 to only 6,000 fans even though the demand was/is a lot higher for tickets. It’s all about supply and demand and they always sell out.
Anyways, PPV is good for people like me parents who are too old now to go to the games in person but still enjoy the games – at least until Chow came here – on tv. If you want folks to sell the stadium out, you only gotta do one thing. Win.
#12
What is the objective here? To increase the active fan base attending the games or to get as much for the price of a ticket as the market (fans) can bare? You need to rethink.
I’m guessing that general seating capacity decreases with a lot of luxury boxes along the sidelines and end zones. So if 30,000 seats includes a bunch of luxury boxes, maybe that’s OK.
Someone suggested a large parking structure with shops on top. Sounds good, but what if it connected directly to the rail station platform? Imagine what a great station it would be– shops, food, restrooms and tons of parking underneath for commuters. Revenue from shops and parking all year-round and commuter parking only takes a hit on game day when AKA runs the parking.
#34 Good one!
Fresno’s New AD has announced its finances have exceed expectations and plan on doing expansion on parts of the University the stadium being one of them.
Also expanding Bulldog Stadium to 70,000 would help attract one of the power 5 conferences to invite Fresno State into its conference.
I think it would be a mistake to go overboard on the luxury boxes. Honolulu doesn’t have that many big corporate entities that would pay big bucks to lease fancy stadium suites. I’d rather see the number of luxury accommodations limited and continue to have real chairback seats for all of the “regular” fans who attend games.
Maybe that thinking is too egalitarian for the 21st century, but I like the idea that families with kids and senior citizens on fixed budgets can still come down to the stadium and watch a game in comfort, rather than subject their okoles to the “bake and ache” that comes with sitting on cheap bleacher seats. I had to sit on bleachers at LaVell Edwards Stadium when I went to watch UH play BYU in Provo, and it was cramped and miserable. I’ve appreciated the chairback seating at Aloha Stadium ever since!
36.
True, but Fresno doesn’t have the TV market that is attractive enough to warrant an invite. Conferences mainly want to invite teams that will increase the $$
All of the above is ok for me…small or large…
But yesterday in Star…fixing n repair n stopping the leaks at the reflective pool at the state capital… 10 MILLION…come on….sheesh….
Maybe sum Tsaiko’s can do FOR ONLY 5 million…. n give the other 5 to AKA ?
But being that Fresno is in California and next door to the likes of Stanford, USC, UCLA they could get one.
Doesn’t the MWC partnership with a TV contract.
If so wouldn’t that mean other conferences have there own partnership with TV corporation.
I think that we should remodel what we have. Maybe add a few luxury boxes to the red level, a few more restrooms, and bring the concessions up to par. Save the rest of the money for maintenance. After 10 years look at the situation again, then decide what to do going forward. We don’t need a fancy stadium right now and don’t close out the NFL with less seating capacity. that would be foolish.
40
I meant more that Fresno does not have the following that schools like UCLA USC Texas or even BYU have, thus they would not attract enough eyes to the TV screen that they would want. Stanford and Cal already have a foothold on the northern california tv market so adding Fresno to the Market doesn’t really add much value to the PAC 12 network. When the PAC 10 expanded to the PAC 12, they added Utah and Colorado to gain the Salt Lake City and the various Colorado TV markets which the conference did not have a presence in previously.
Think small, design for the now. Typical local planning. Thinking and planning out of the box is not the way Hawaii works. Sorry but it time to quite this mentality.
Small crowds = losing season period!
If the football team had a consistent winning record of nothing worse than 11-2 for the last 7 years you would not be having this discussion. Winning is everything, just ask they guys who strap it up!!!!!!!!!!!
This argument reminds me of the one Stan Sheriff had over the size of the Stan Sheriff Arena. Many people thought that Hawaii fans would only support a gym the size of the Blaisdell, but Sheriff fought to have a 10,000 seat facility. I think he was right, and I think it is a mistake to go back to a smaller stadium, unless we are giving up on the NFL and on returning to the glory days of June Jones or Bob Wagner size crowds.
I’m going to suggest we don’t have enough information to decide repair or rebuild. A repair cost of $200 million to last 30 years compared to let’s say new at $600 million for a 50 year lifespan changes the conversation. As far as I can tell the build new estimates were for stadium only without taking into consideration existing or non-existent infrastructure.
beans, it’s about maximizing income for UH athletics. Fan base is not relevant, only the number of people who want to buy a ticket on a given day (yes it does depend on the Ws). If there is somewhere I’d want to increase the fan base, it’s in Japan, China, and Australia.
When it comes down to spending tens of millions to add another 10,000 seats for a stadium that *might* need that capacity 10 days a year against spending tens of millions to fix public schools instead, I choose fixing the schools any day. I don’t have to re-think this, I just prioritized instead.
How long does it take to pick the AD?
I smell something fishy…<
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#46 El burro (:-)
The fan base is irrelevant? Then why have a stadium at all? They could play all the games at Ching Field and just have everyone watch on ppv. Now that would max out the profit.
China? Japan? Should be our market focus? Really?
I am sure missing your point of view. This is our HOME TEAM. I want to be able to watch them in person. And have a beer of course……………….If the Chinese and Japanese want to buy a ticket and sit next to me? That’s ok too.
5.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but when Frank Fasi was in office as mayor, didn’t he want to build a 90,000-seat stadium in Ewa?
ok the cost 300,000 for repair and 600,000 for a new one !! so repairs would be metal type !! and new would be cement type!! right? did they get a price to go back all metal?
maybe if the price 1/2 might be not to bad if can get 40 years life out it the the one we have know!!
So. I’ll believe the team when I see some wins on the left column. I think they should make the 1st game of the season a discount, then wait and see for regular prices. Economic move
#51
HUH?
When it comes to PPV UH sports, interested subscribers pay a package price. Which is good. But make it feasible for standbys, where not sure is the normal behavior. More people in this category to attract on the whole. State and west patrons who may be interested in the game at the specific time slot can order it then.
I remember way back when Frank Fasi suggested they tear down the rust bucket and build a concrete stadium. If we had only listened then, I am confident we would have spent a lot less money than we have sice then and we would have a concret stadium instead of on that has a “protective layer of rust” on it.
I say go big or go home… Remember, travel costs are the same if you are playing D1 or D3.
New stadium?
Say “Goodbye” to individual seats.
Say “Hello” to bench seating.
…you can “rent” a seat cushion with a back for $20 at the event. 😉
…and sponsors wont be standing in line to support a D3 program.
3-Prong,
Word for Dat Day: patina
😆
…unless you get 59 consecutive winning seasons! 😎
No matter what the attendance is we still not going to win games we don’t match up to other schools
The announced football season ticket renewal deadline is less than a week away and UH Athletics doesn’t seem to be promoting it. They are only giving season ticket holders about 3 weeks to make the purchase to boot. Hardly makes sense (IMO) if your intention is to increase season ticket sales.
Mid-Major football is on borrowed time. The distance between the haves and the have nots is widening every year due to the tv contracts. We need to go all in and try to get in with the Pac-16. Boise and Fresno realize this. What about us?
…let us in the Pac-16? We will even willingly pay for the trvel subsidies which would be a small percentage of our share of the tv money.
I would be interested to read a report on rust as we have at the stadium. Is it compromising the integrity of the structure or just superficial cosmetic degeneration? Does it pose an immediate concern or one 5 or 10 years from now?
I assume these questions have been address and I just haven’t seen the answers.
Yes?
Fasi governed during a period where growth was everywhere. Our population was increasing and money flowing into the state by outside interest. Hawaii had been discovered and large investments were being made in construction of hotels in waikiki. The outlook was bright and he was not conservative. Do you know that he was actually a junk dealer before being elected? He was loved by some and not by others. He was quite a statesman/showman. He told you what he thought. And sometimes he was right! (:-)
what i was asking was if that prices they have for a new stadium !! did they also check how how much to put up a new one the same type we have aready ?
Me wish the new AD …push up the renewal season tickets….till one week after the spring break scrimmage…
Hold the scrimmage at nite there…
Give the fans…sum time to go n watch the ‘new n improved’ chow show…n hopefully sell a few more tickets…just maybe….
What is the rush…they not going not mail it out till the week b-4 the game ?
#65
Oh Ok.
I think that the popular consensus would be that the steel didn’t have the maintenance free life expectancy as it was stated to have when the stadium was built. Therefore would probably be a difficult sell. However new products may be available now that weren’t back then. But your question is a good one.
#66
Good idea.
Chum the water!
just try to think of away to save money for the UH and the state !!
stadium is 40 years old this year !! not that bad
yea… fearless FRANK FASI WOULD MAKE A GOOD AD… sparks would fly up there 4 sure…HE HE HE
Yeah that is my question. Who does not attend UH games because the stadium is not a new one? Tax and spend. No need.
There may be a large property for sale within Manoa Valley, just to build this new UH stadium. If the state or private developer can buy off a large chunk of land, then contract it out to bid contractors as UH Manoa and the UH system or on the open market, to other businesses willing to invest in the property, then maybe they could get this new stadium building going. For how much will they build it into? 50,000 stadium. But the design is high technology base, out of cement and state of the art design. Just as you see how the Seattle Seahawks football dome is, that is the way I envision this new stadium should look like. The real issue is who will put up the majority of the funds? The true story is tax payers will have to put up the majority of the funds for this to get started. I cannot see how an investor would want to invest in such a capital project as a stadium and not expect any return for their investment. This is the hard part of the project, the funding of the project and guaranteeing payments for the outside investors. If they are willing to invest in UH athletics.
Hopefully Practice 15 (scheduled for May 2) is not being targeted for the Spring Fling event in the evening…….since a lot of us boxing fans are gonna be watching the Mayweather-Pacquaio fight instead.
well sum times you know… kapakahi….sum people are pakiki head.. n will not change things….unless it really hurts attendance…they they do many things to make it not happen…like make games on thursday///
In 1976 Aloha Stadium was built. The UH system is built on state infrastructure dating back 1959, statehood. Out of a handful of residence, UH athletics relies on community support based on demographic figures. 2013, 1,404,059 people were in Hawaii. State Gross domestic product, is a significant figure they’ll use to decide if we are capable of supporting additional funds coming into the state. New Stadium and roads are examples of where funds would be used on. The importance of SGDP, is who is producing the most products for consumers to buy. Productivity, and technology are two factors most needed for a new stadium to be built.
3prong, for one wildcat, and one brudhha who probably drank too many Henry Winhards back in the day, you make some really points.
Forget, D2/D3, from a business model it just does not fly, no legit sponsors, certainly no league subsidy, and very hard to schedule teams on an annual basis that have that kind of scratch to make it happen. Further, you greatly limit your market when you are playing Pacific Lutheran and Whitter.
Now at mid majors, as been stated, by several of our guys, the business model is tilted to the super programs. That said, either we look at some paradigm shift nationally, or this eventually leads to about 50 or schools playing each other, over and over. The fact is, they need, to a certain degree, the rest of the remaining D1 programs, to at least appease the optics of parity, but moreover, the diversity of playing schedule and opponent. That said, as UHAD is applied, either we get more institutional support, via our legislature, via the BORs, or are books will always be in the red.
For what it is worth Wyoming, Colorado State, Western Michigan all have in my opinion great stadiums and really good game day experiences. This is to name just a few. Just because somebody wants to go jumbo I prefer a filled stadium…for what it’s worth. Right now 30 – to 40 is just fine.
Had a feeling that Matlin would be chosen as the new AD. Seems to be the most qualified on paper. A JD clone.
At least he seems to have experience in putting on concerts if that is an option to raise additional funds for the UHAD.
http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/breaking/20150325_David_A_K_Matlin_expected_to_be_named_UH_athletic_director.html?id=297525321
New post, new AD:
http://hawaiiwarriorworld.com/?p=29321