Hawaii down to 33 in RPI, up to 13 in poll
http://web1.ncaa.org/app_data/weeklyrpi/2016WVBrpi1.html
Wisconsin, losing again, stays at 1
Arizona, which beat Stanford (now 11) but lost to Cal (now 122)
now down 2 to 31.
COMMENTS
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To hear Kalei Greeley say she about 70% is very disappointing. Was hoping she was about 85%. That too bad because we need her in the post season.
1. The postseason is over six weeks away. we’ll see where she is then.
Hawaii has nominated Taylor for POW, and Iosia for both FOW and DPOW
I don’t understand the point you are trying to make with the Wisconsin/Arizona data (I believe you wanted to gripe about AZ being 31st and ahead of UH). RPI rankings are more complicated than the above data you present. First, other teams’ RPIs do not factor into a team’s RPI, only the first two component’s of other teams’ RPIs (in fact, other teams’ RPI rankings don’t factor into a team’s RPI at all). Second, you didn’t show how each team’s SOS fared, only whether they won or lost, which is just 25% of the RPI calculation. Third, the RPI ranking depends on how other teams in the RPI ranking performed, their SOS, etc. You can win and go downing ranking, or you can lose and go up in ranking, depending on how teams around you performed, how their SOS performed, etc. Finally, there are bonuses for wins and losses against top rated teams that were not mentioned above. Too simple. If you are going to gripe, at least be intellectually honest about it. We all know the biases of RPI and why it puts UH at a disadvantage, but IMHO, respectfully, you are beating a dead horse.
If anyone has issues with UH being ranked lower than AZ in the this week’s RPI even though UH beat AZ (or with UH being ranked higher than UCLA in last week’s AVCA poll even though UCLA swept UH), consider the following:
UH beat AZ 3-2 at Hawaii
AZ beat UCLA 3-2 at UCLA
UCLA beat UH 3-0 at Hawaii
So who should be ranked the highest? Very circular.
Granato ended up hitting .300 out of 20 attacks.
During the match on TV, Nikki looked the same height as Burns, standing next to each other.
Stealing Cindy’s thunder here, but UH jumps to 13 in the latest AVCA poll.
https://www.avca.org/polls/di-women/10-17-2016.html
4. not making any point. just mentioning it since Arizona was discussed yesterday.
not griping and sorry if you think there is no intellectual honesty in a simple comment.
7. yes, just posted it on the poll. first things first, which is our breaking news. don’t consider it thunder stealing. sometimes others get to something first.
as for the poll, Nebraska moves up to 1. 62 votes. Texas to 2, 1 vote. Penn State at No. 9 with 1 vote.
8. No worries and no apology required. I know others who read your blog often take your posts as scripture, so I want to ensure they see a broader view.
Since Hawai’i is ranked 33 in the latest NCAA RPI, if Hawai’i does not host a sub-regional…which of the current Top 16 teams in the RPI would be ideal and not ideal for Hawaii to travel to for the sub-regional and potential regional final?
I wasn’t apologizing to you. more of it was too bad you chose to go where you went where there wasn’t anything intended and you read way more into it.
ouch! … cindy throwing out the ‘sorry, not sorry’ …
😉
maverick — i think ur keeping up a losing battle. i do appreciate ur continued efforts to inform us all about the RPI tho… much mahalo! 🙂
If Hawaii cannot host a sub-regional this season, which school in the NCAA Top 16 RPI would be ideal and not ideal for Hawaii to play against?
IMO, irregardless if Greeley’s hitting is at 100% or much less, having Kalei in the front court will bring so much stability. She brings all those little intangibles attributes that makes this team special.
13. It is what it is. There is only so much one can do. You can can lead a horse to water…
VBFan — i’d actually be ok if hawaii stayed on the west coast in the first round this year.
mostly likely, it’d be at a pac -12 school. there’s a bunch of them in range for a seed, at least at this stage of the RPI. stanford is likely the only pac-12 team that is solid for a seeding and hosting duties. the rest of the pac-12 seems in flux with teams going in and out of the top 16-ish RPI, as they beat up on each other … by the end of the season any number of pac-12 teams could end up in contention for seeds, like wahington st, washington, oregon, and ucla. not all of them will be seeded, but some from this group will. there’s no dominant pac-12 team this year. right now the top 8 teams in the pac-12 are within 1 loss of each other. that’s parity! i would take an improved/solidified hawaii lineup against any of the pac-12 teams at this point. none of the pac-12 are unbeatable.
there’s also san diego and/or byu as a possibility for a seed on the west coast. san diego looks like the tougher of the two, but byu is hard to beat on their home court at elevation.
if hawaii went to the midwest or east for the 1st/2nd rounds, then teams like kansas st, kansas, kentucky, purdue, both michigans are probably a strong possibilities for seeds. i’d love to see hawaii get another shot at kansas st!
I really enjoyed the game last night except when they showed Nikki in pain. This team is coming together at the right time. A little bit more time and communication between Annie and Noreen could make the left side almost as strong as our rt. and middle attack. All of the D.S.s are playing very well. Burns has been a pleasant surprise, and we have depth at every position.
the disconnect between where shoji thinks greeley’s recovery is at, versus how greeley feels she’s progressed, is kind of interesting. shoji’s statements sounds more “hopeful” than anything else. while greeley’s sounds real conservative. perhaps her actual progress in recuperation is somewhere in between …
at least the remaining schedule for hawaii favors recuperation, with 2 bye weeks in the last 1.5 months of the regular season.
Most encouraging was the play of Burns: 5 kills. 1 error in 7 attempts, showed quick hands on off plays on a few occasions, pretty good closing the block. Granted versus an average-level (NCAA 142 out of 334) team. Still, I thought this was the best I saw of her. If she continues to gain confidence and experience, maybe Mitchem stays on the left. Down the road , I’d like to think the injuries/ inconsistent play have led to valuable experience to many and therefore more options, particularly at DS, setter, and even LH in the hoped for post-season.
#19 Ron, I’m with you. It was a satisfying match which has been rare this season. I too felt the players were the right ones at this moment in times. I finally could really enjoy watching the match. Hoping there will be many more coming and we are finally rolling forward.
Penn State starting to catch fire, but Nittany Lions have a tough stretch with OSU at home, then Michigan, Minnesota & Wisconsin on the road…
Not sure it matters, re Greely “xx%” recovered. xx% ‘recovered’ is subjective, in the eye of the beholder, and sort of in the realm of mumbo jumbo. All that matters is if she is the better player and option than what is out there, and if she has discomfort still, does she want to play through it and can she do so without undue risk of re-injury. If ‘yes’ she can play better than what is out there, and if ‘yes’ she wants to play through some discomfort/pain, and if ‘yes’ she can do so without undue risk of re-injury, then ‘yes’ she would be 100% an option to return to front row duty.
Wow, some serious critical thinking there. Just kidding. Yeah, it has always been a call that only Greeley can make. There is life after volleyball and Kalei would want to enjoy it with two good shoulders. I am sure that Dave will make the right decision for the good of Kalei and the team. If not, have you seen the size and physicality of her Dad – Dave would be dead meat.
#24 thanks for clearing it all up.
#25 thats funny! must be a big bugga. Hear her brothers are big too!
Glad to see Shoji read my post and put Mitchem left and Burns middle…just jk. Yes it’s only Davis but Burns is gaining more confidence with playing time and it’s beginning to really show. Mitchem besides Taylor can just overpower the block and go over them.
26. Kalei has 3 brothers, the two youngest are twins 6’7″ and being recruited by Rolo as QB and WR.
on VT, the “RPI Futures” list was posted for this week, and hawaii is currently projected to finish with a #39 RPI after the regular season, possibly taking one more loss for a 21-6 record.
that #39 RPI could/should still be good enough to get hawaii in as at-large team, if hawaii doesn’t win the big west automatic berth. but that is definitely “bubble team” territory too. so no guarantees…
if hawaii wins out, it could push their RPI closer to the mid-30s, which should definitely get them in. but winning out could also mean hawaii shares or wins the big west conference championship outright. they would end up winning the automatic berth anyway, or if they lose on a tie-breaker, then a mid-30s RPI will get them in as an at-large.
still though, hawaii needs to continue to take care of business from here on out, and beating lbsu at home on 11/4 would remove all doubt.
#25, 26, yes me agree with tongo and the funny rabbit earred one…
Sorry everyone who is still hoping Hawaii will host a sub-regional. This it completely and totally out of the question.
We need to hope and pray ‘t think so.hey even make the dang tournament. LBSU holds the tie breaker even if we sweep them at home, as of right now anyway. It’s the result against the next team, which is Cal Poly as of right now. They swept them, we didn’t. I think that is the weirdest tie breaker. I hope I’m reading the rules wrong, but I don’t know.
Freaking internet is screwing with my typing. SUPER annoying.
We need to hope and pray they even make the tournament. If they are second in the conference or tied for first and lose the tie breaker, they may be left out. That would be devastating. Especially with the expectations we had of them this year. Yes, injuries and what not came into play, but still.
And if this is Dave’s last year, not a great way to go out.
And UC Irvine and Davis will not be easy outs at their place. If we don’t play well, we could lose up there, too.
31. For everyone’s benefit, here is the auto-qualifier tie-breaking formula if only two teams are tied:
1. The winner of the two-match series between the tied teams shall be declared the automatic qualifier.
2. If still tied, the team with the best record in conference matches against common opponents beginning at the top of the standings and working down the standings until the tie is broken shall be declared the automatic qualifier. Ties among teams at the top of the standings should be broken first to establish a ranked order.
3. If still tied, the team with the best total win/loss set record in conference matches against all conference opponents, including the matches between the tied teams, shall be declared the automatic qualifier.
4. If still tied, the team with the best win/loss set record against common conference opponents, excluding the team with which it is tied, beginning at the top of the standings and working down until the tie is broken shall be declared the automatic qualifier. Ties at the top of the standings should be broken first to establish a ranked order.
5. If still tied, the team with the highest point ratio in all conference matches shall be declared the automatic qualifier.
31. Assume that LBSU and UH end up at 15-1, with UH beating LBSU in the re-match. Then the tie-breaker goes to #3. Right now, LBSU is 21-5 (sets record) in 7 matches, UH is 23-5 (sets record) in 8 matches. Right now, LBSU has the advantage in tie-breaker #3. UH will need a better sets record over the last 8 matches of the season to at least tie, if not better, LBSU in tiebreaker #3. If LBSU and UH are tied in sets records at the end of the season, then the sets record against the third place team comes into play.
35. Correction, assume LBSU sweeps its next match, then it will have a 24-5 sets record, which is better than UH’s 23-5 sets record. LBSU will have the tie-breaker #3 advantage with 8 matches to go.
Well Maverick you certainly think highly of yourself in trying your best to be intellectually correct and speak for all of us to have a broader view since you assume that all of us readers take what ever is written as scripture. Hows about just us readers just coming into the blog to read some of the nonsense as entertainment and have some interest as to how the team is doing. Personally I’m happy for the student/athletes who are able to get a college degree and participate in a sport that they love. Whatever the outcome of their games irregardless of RPI and ranking, I appreciate our coaches and players and Cindy for her time and effort to report on the Wahine progress. Mahalo.
37. This is one of the most defensive posts I’ve read in a while. Btw, irregardless is not a word in the English language.
to be fair, maverick never said that “all” readers take cindy’s posts as “scripture” … certainly, some do, and some don’t.
personally, i like maverick’s posts. i know there may be those who don’t care to talk or read about RPI … but he adds to the understanding of it, and he often tries to dispel misconceptions about it. i think that’s a good thing …
39. Thx
I’d like to see KK open matches, with the green light to attack at will. NI can follow after the tone is set.
Big Ten teams are proving the value of the setter dump. Ohio State attempted 18 dumps vs Nebraska, Penn State attempted 13 vs Minnesota, etc.
Attempting so many dumps keeps the MB guessing. When the setter jumps to set the ball the MB has to decide whether to jump for the block or hope for the best.
This breaks the game down to a 1 on 1 guessing game, rendering game plans almost pointless.
34. I thought that if UH could beat Long Beach in less than five sets, UH could win the tie breaker. According to you, not so. So Cal Poly would have to take at least two sets from Long Beach this coming Saturday (the 22nd) and then Hawaii would have to beat Cal Poly in three sets come November 17th.
Originally I was from Cal Poly so I’ll be glad to watch the Saturday match live and root for Cal Poly to be really competitive with Long Beach. At least this is one match I can watch. However, if Cal Poly loses again to Long Beach in three straight sets, it won’t matter if Hawaii beats Long Beach next month in whatever fashion. I can’t watch any matches at UH live any more, so this is the last year I’ll be a UH fan. I’m mad at UH for not enforcing the contract with Big West in offering free matches to everybody. Watching a replay a week later on YouTube is old and stale. At least Cal Poly, my alma mater, doesn’t exclude anybody and abides by the contract. I am still stung over being left out of live UH video. It is so unfair and a gross violation of the Big West TV contract.
42. I know that Maverick’s post re the BWC tie breaking formula is correct, but I also remember hearing during OCS’s post game show after the UCD match that if UH beats LBSU in less than 5 sets in the rematch and both teams end up with a 15-1 record, UH would win the automatic qualifier (which is incorrect), so it seems that there is some misinformation out there. I hope they clear it up to prevent fan confusion after UH sweeps the Beach at home. 🙂
My source for the tie breaking formula is:
http://www.bigwest.org/code_book/2017/2016-17%20BWC%20Manual%20-%20Section%2021-VB8.1.16.pdf
I copied it virtually verbatim.
44. Yep, you are spot on. OCS crew was mistaken.
28. Kalei’s other little brother is 14 6’6 a basketball player that can already dunk a basketball, very talented family.
Long beach has a tougher schedule remaining still has to go to ucsb and poly and here ,they will lose a match or two imo!
Kalei mentioned at 70% in her effective performance rate and 6 weeks till postseason.
Wondering how her playing, front row at times affects her recovery; she’s been hitting albeit gingerly and carefully. Also, if this could either make it worse or delay her recovery time. Or perhaps it is part of he therapy/recovery process to help her get better?
I think it’s Maverick’s “holier than thou” attitude that rubs people the wrong way. The bit about “leading a horse to water…” is pretty insulting if you think about what’s being implied.
Oh well, I guess he has nothing better to do than to educate us simpletons.
Hey Mav, is that “defensive” enough for you or are you going to deflect my criticism by critiquing my grammar?
48. Whenever someone has provided a logical or data-based argument to refute things I’ve written, I’ve admitted my mistakes. Unfortunate that you have resorted to making ad hominem. Please go to volleytalk, thanks. Onward.
Personally enjoy mavericks comments.
Can’t please everyone. No offense intended today. Sad that some have had a negative reaction. Anyhow, let’s all just move on before this thread really deteriorates.
I don’t normally come to someone’s defense on this blog. But there are definitely some people here who are butt hurt that others just flat out know more than them.
There are in fact people who takes Cindy’s word as scripture and are probably refreshing their screens to see if she posted anything regarding the lineup or status or something.
Maverick, has over time, proven he knows what he is talking about when it comes to the intricacies of the game and rules. He is not always 100% right, but he is pretty spot on. So is Cindy.
I appreciate Mav’s insight when it comes to RPI and rules, etc. The OC16 team is not always correct and, in fact, are often incorrect with their info.
People are this board get so defensive when someone speaks or has another opinion other than there own, it’s crazy. I love that we all love wahine volleyball enough to be on a blog like this to interact with other wahine crazies. It’s great. I know, I myself, has said some pretty stupid things on this board. One was challenging the trainer’s credentials. I was absolutely wrong, but sometimes when emotions start to take over, people say DUMB stuff, myself included. Which is why, when I start to get really upset, like after the Washington match, I disappeared for awhile because I was FUMING and pissed at everything. It still gets me riled up, I feel it coming on now. I better move one.
But, throughout the years, Maverick has been an excellent contributor to this blog and I just don’t think some people like the fact that he just flat out knows more then they do. So they say he has a “holier than thou” attitude. Which he doesn’t. I wish I knew him personally, I think we would be good friends and would happily buy him a beer and we can chat about wahine volleyball and all the crazy bloggers on this blog. 😉
52. Thx. If I still lived in Hawaii, we would have have beers and watch Wahine volleyball together, along with others on this blog.
52. Well said. I don’t post a lot here, but do read it often and have learned a lot from Cindy, Maverick, and many of the other knowledgeable fans here. What a great resource for UH VBall fans!
Strongly agree with haleiwacrossfitter. The joy of the blog is that there are so many knowledgable contributors. If you make a rash statement someone might call you on it. If you use dubious statistics someone will call you on it. (Probably Maverick because of his expertise in this area) What I really like is that you bloggers and Cindy are able to sometimes change my thinking about the various topics through your observations and logic. I really enjoy the mental interactions we share along with our love for the Wahine.
Ok, I needed to go through those tie-breaker rules a bit more. For my own clarity I have commented on them below in light of what I think are the ‘likely’ scenario(s) that gets us to each rule. Please don’t rely on anything that follows, it’s just humble opinion and could be all out to lunch.
In the event two teams tie for first place in the final standings, the following tie-breaking formula shall be used to determine the automatic qualifier:
1. The winner of the two-match series between the tied teams shall be declared the automatic qualifier (AQ).
– If Hawaii wins the next match with LB and they both go on to have identical conference win/loss records, then go to #2 below. If LB wins the next match with Hawaii and they both go on to have identical win/loss records then LB is the AQ.
2. If still tied, the team with the best record in conference matches against common opponents beginning at the top of the standings and working down the standings until the tie is broken shall be declared the automatic qualifier. Ties among teams at the top of the standings should be broken first to establish a ranked order.
– This tie-breaker compares win/loss records against common conference oponents starting at the top. It does not compare set records. If Hawaii and LB finish with identical common opponent win/loss records, which would happen if Hawaii and LB lose only to each other, then go to #3 below.
3. If still tied, the team with the best total win/loss set record in conference matches against all conference opponents, including the matches between the tied teams, shall be declared the automatic qualifier.
– This rule compares the two tied teams to see which has the overall best conference set record. It gives both teams from this point on extra incentive to win every set and not mess around. If both teams are still tied after tie-breaker #3, go to #4 below.
4. If still tied, the team with the best win/loss set record against common conference opponents, excluding the team with which it is tied, beginning at the top of the standings and working down until the tie is broken shall be declared the automatic qualifier. Ties at the top of the standings should be broken first to establish a ranked order.
– If we are at rule #4 there could be more than one scenario that gets them here, but the one that is most foreseeable I think assumes that Hawaii beats LB on 04 Nov., both Hawaii and LB finish 15-1 only losing to each other, and both finish with identical in conference set records. If that happens, we have to start looking at the set records against common opponents (not each other) starting at the top. As of tonight, that first team they’d be looking at that they have in common is Cal Poly. If LB beats Cal Poly 3-0 this coming weekend, then LB would have the better record against the first common opponent beneath them in the standings and LB would be the AQ. If LB beats Poly 3-2 then Hawaii would be the AQ. If LB beats Poly 3-1, then again we have a tie and we must go to #5 below.
5. If still tied, the team with the highest point ratio in all conference matches shall be declared the automatic qualifier.
– I think this rule is looking at the conference teams stat page to see which team has the highest points per set ratio in conference. The advantage here is to Hawaii for the moment, but going forward that could change. This rule gives both teams incentive to keep their best line-ups on the floor at all times, to score in system, and to dominate every set. Playing down to the competition or having a flat night won’t help with the points scored per set stat, and would add to the risk of losing any advantage under tie-breaker rule #5.
56. That’s all correct, although for #4, just need to mention you are assuming UH beats Poly 3-0 in the rematch and Poly ends up third at season’s end.
56. One more amendment to your #4: if still tied after Poly, you need to do the same analysis with the fourth place team, etc. If tied after going through all the other teams, then go to #5.
#57, Yes, thanks for adding that.
Difficult to calculate the odds of getting to a tie-breaker #4 that would necessitate comparing records with LB vs. Cal Poly, since it assumes a lot of other things among a lot of other possibilities, but I’d guess the odds of getting to that one particular ‘foreseeable’ scenario could be characterized as ‘small’ but ‘not insignificant’.
If coaches, players, and fans are wondering what to make of it, it’s not hard to sum up what the mission forward must be. The goal has to be to win all remaining conference matches, do it in the fewest sets possible, and don’t just win each set but dominate in each set to the greatest degree possible. That’s what is required to give themselves the best chance at automatic qualifier.
Of course, the future could play out a lot different ways for all the remaining contenders. Cal Poly could get hot, LB and Hawaii could get cold or sustain injuries, and then maybe advantage goes to Cal Poly. I’d say the odds of that are also ‘small’, but not insignificant. If you are a Mustang fan, they still have rational hope, but they need to have a particularly good outing this weekend.
Lurking always but enjoying Mavericks posts. I don’t believe he comes off as “holier than thou”. If you really believe that his post is showing that kind of attitude take a look at a poster (Oxtail 01) responding on Cindy’s article yesterday.
haleiwacrossfitter — well said!
Question guys: If I subscribe to Hawaiian Telcom to cable/internet, will I be able to watch mens/womens volleyball games on tv? OR do I HAVE to subscribe to Oceanic to be able to watch? Hawaiian telecom is way cheaper in price, there has to be a way to get both and? Someone help? I know SOMEONE out there has to have hawaiian welcome but still be able to watch the games!
62, if I’m understanding your question correctly…. Yes, a Hawaiian Tel subscriber (at least on Oahu) can get Wahine Volleyball on TV. It is channel 89 / 1089 high def. That’s still true this volleyball season.
I am not sure what the future holds, and do remember a few seasons ago where Oceanic “bundled” a couple of Wahine outings with some desirable men’s basketball (and maybe men’s volleyball?) and we as Oceanic subscribers back then had to pay for that access. We didn’t and sent them a letter expressing our irritation.
new thread up.
http://hawaiiwarriorworld.com/?p=39758
4.5.et al.
Maverick, I appreciate all the info you have put out over the years.
But I do take issue with you saying I was beating a dead horse, not to mention the ‘be intellectually honest’ about it.
I wasn’t doing anything except mentioning what happened to Arizona;s RPI after splitting its match. I could have easily picked out what happened with other Hawaii opponents but didn’t.
I wasn’t griping. was just a point of information since we had discussed Arizona on the previous thread.
62. As pointed out by 63, HawTel broadcasts Wahine volleyball on Ch. 89/1089. However, HawTel subscribers do not have access to the streaming video if you live in Hawaii. Only Oceanic subscribers when they sign in with their ID can get the stream.
All other Hawaii residents are geo-blocked. which means they are blocked because of their geographic location.